Water Dispensing.

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CraftAsEngineer
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So, i just finished building gnembon's "simple" mob farm to find out it doesnt work because dispensing water on the server is unabled. I dont believe this should be the case. Water dispensing is only laggy client wise if using vanilla minecraft (optifine solves this issue) the entire farm (1 module of it) creates 1 millisecond per tick lag (Evidence provided at gnembon's video at min 17:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvMmdeZqiI&t=338s) which is not much. TPS depends on server's resources, so 1 millisecond on gnembon's computer doesnt mean much, although it probably means its insignificant amounts of lag (i think).
Main point is, i believe some testing is on order, since my farm is finished you can use mine for testing (keeping in mind my region has other farms, so i suggest first testing how much lag my region generates, then activating water dispensing, then check again).
Optimal afk spot for the farm is at cords (-1674/190/-3438)
But running a test at some more ground level highs seems a good idea as well, since most of the time the farm is loaded im gonna be on ground level, not at the afk spot (since players cant afk for longer than 15 minutes).
So yeah, just wanted to ask if we could reconsider water dispensing being allowed. Its a vanilla minecraft feature and mob farms are really usefull (best way of getting a lot of wool, bones and gunpowder all in one), and i dont believe they are lag heavy, but again, i cant prove it for this server.

Thank you for reconsidering it,
Uminoken
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HayanTokki
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Water dispensing affects server ticks per second. Allowing one person to have water dispenser run farms means we must enable everyone which very quickly becomes a massive issue (as is evident by the water flush mob farms we had in our previous map that drastically slowed the server down).

Remember, it's not the flowing water that causes lag on the server, it's the appearance and disappearance of water source blocks that cause lag. This is why flowing water farms are allowed (semi-auto wheat farms using pistons for stopping and starting water flow for example).
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Floki_Raven
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I did some tests in creative on this for 1.13, and found a significant lag spikes for dispensers with water, whereas water logged trap doors barely caused any drop in FPS.

Your method is for 1.12. Consider looking at a newer one like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAy6mLr1ZcA

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg17wAr_IOI

The one i have in Pass is redstoneless and produces more than enough garbage.
Floki_Raven

I came into this world kicking and screaming while covered in someone elses blood, and i have no problem with going out the same way.
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CraftAsEngineer
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They are both heavier on lag than gnembon's though. The problem with water dispensers is the water updating blocks (heavy on the client, but not so much so on the server, gets solved with optifine as well). So the second one is just as 'bad'. First one is not an option for me, i dont have any wither roses and duping tnt is not allowed on the server, so you cant make a perimeter, and so many whopper minecarts already generate more lag i believe.

I dont think disabling water dispensing is the right call Hayan. Yeah, people can abuse redstone components to generate lag, you can even abuse boats and chests to generate lag, but banning them its too much imo. Dispensing water is a feature that comes in minecraft, just like chests, i dont see a why it is peculiarly pointed out as a lag generator, it isnt that bad.
Like said above, water dispensers are not that heavy on the server. Of course if everyone builds x farm the server becomes laggy, but does that mean no one gets to have any farm?

Another point, you can achieve exactly the same with water and trapdoors, generating the same lag. If there's an alternative that's not banned and does the same, why have it banned in the first place? And yes, i could change it to trapdoors, but i already built it for dispensers, and i think this ban is unreasonable, so i'd like it changed :)
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HayanTokki
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Like I said, dispensers generate lag on the server's end. Rather drastically. And no amount of optifine which only affects user end of the render helps the server with the lag it causes. And as I've stated, the lag is from the creation of water source blocks, not water flow which is why water flow does not create lag for the server at nearly close the lag it generates when using dispensers.

The dispenser disabling has been like this for over a year now. We put much thought into whether this was the right move. Dispensers being allowed on the previous map contributed to enough lag that I had to seriously consider paying triple the rate I am paying now just to have processing power to keep up with the lag. But i havent had to consider that at all this map with the dispensers being disabled. If you would like for dispensers to be enabled on the server, please contact microsoft or mojang and ask them to fix how dispensers work so they dont affect servers as badly as they do. It took them a few years, but this eventually led them to fix the lag issue generated by hoppers, I'm sure they could work on this as well if there is enough pressure to fix it.
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CraftAsEngineer
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I honestly didnt think it was that bad, my apologies. I'll change the farm to trapdoor based then.
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Cobbett
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Trapdoors will have the same lag as dispensers, the problem is caused by the large number of block updates when water flows - which is a server problem as that's where the updates are calculated. But we can't block trapdoors, only the use of buckets in dispensers, but it does help a little.
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CraftAsEngineer
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That's what i was thinking. I dont own a server so i cant do TPS tests but apparently main problem with water updating is client fps lag, at least is what gnembon's video (farm for 1.12) says. As 1.13 changes water mechanics maybe this changes, but it still seems to me is the same problem, vanilla minecraft not good at block updates, but the client fps problem gets solved with optifine client. I dont know how much tps lag it generates, but as provided in the video it doesnt seem that much. Apparently it is, according to Hayan, but gnembon provides evidence that it isnt that bad and hayan only says it is that bad, so im more inclined to believe gnembon. What im trying to say is that i'd like some experiments to be run to see how bad tps wise the farm is, completly disregarding fps lag. If the farm is just as bad as 15 villagers i dont think there's a need to ban the farm, if its as bad as 1000 villagers then yeah, makes sense to ban it.

Proof gnembon provides:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvMmdeZqiI&t=410s
minute 16:55 to 18:55
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